The Computer Told Me part 2
For JK, who test read Part 1 and asked “So what happened with the plant in the end?”
About a twenty minute read without an AI summary.
Introduction
This is a continuation of back and forth with Google Gemini I had while trying to grow the tiniest type of bonsai: mame (pronounced mah-meh). I had tried and failed before, but maybe this time would be different. See Part 1 for the story so far.
It’s forest not clump
Me 7/23/2026 3:01 PM: Okay it isn’t dead. Time to establish watering routine
Gemini: That is fantastic news. Surviving these first few days of July heat without shriveling up proves that the woody stub has safely calloused over and the rosette is drawing on its internal reserves.
Now that the initial "healing dry spell" is complete, you can transition into a regular watering routine designed to encourage those new roots to stretch out and anchor deep into the perlite.
Here is the game plan for watering your shallow mame setup going forward:
1. The Core Technique: The Bottom-Soak
Because your mix is perlite-heavy and the plant is tiny and top-wired, always water using the bottom-soak method you set up:
The Depth: Fill a shallow dish or bowl with about 21 inch of water.
The Soak: Lower the pot in slowly so the lightweight perlite doesn't float or displace the rosette.
The Duration: Leave it in the dish for 30 to 60 seconds. As soon as you see the top layer of gritty aggregate look damp, capillary action has done its job. Lift it out immediately and let all excess water drain freely out the bottom.
2. The Golden Rule: "Strict Dry-Out" Cycles
Succulent roots don't grow towards water; they grow in search of water during the dry phase.
Frequency: Do not water on a rigid daily calendar. In peak July heat, a shallow perlite pot outdoors might dry out in 2 to 3 days, but always check first.
The Check: Lift the tiny pot by its edges. Because perlite is so light, a dry pot feels weightless, like an empty paper cup. A damp pot will feel noticeably heavier.
The Rule: Only soak it when the mix feels completely, bone-dry to the touch.
3. Using Your Matching Tray for Midsummer Insurance
Now that it's starting to take water, you can put that matching tray to work as a heat shield against hot July afternoons:
Fill the matching tray with a thin layer of coarse sand, fine gravel, or small lava rock.
Pour a little water into the tray so the gravel is damp, but do not let the pot sit directly in stagnant water.
Place the mame pot on top of the damp gravel.
Why this helps: As the sun heats the tray, the water evaporates upward around the pot. This lowers the temperature of the pot walls and creates a humid micro-climate right around the container without waterlogging the roots.
What to Watch For Next
Leaves Plumping Up: Over the next week, the rosette should look firm, upright, and vivid green.
The Wire Check (In ~3 Weeks): Resist the urge to loosen or remove the wire just yet. Give it at least 3 to 4 weeks of this watering routine to build a real root network. When you give the wire a tiny bit of slack down the road and the plant doesn't move, you'll know those roots have fully gripped the substrate.
For now, give it its very first bottom-soak, place it back in bright dappled shade, and let the soil go completely dry before its next drink!
Me 7/23/2026 3:10 PM: It was 92g dry and 104 wet, and only a few drops came out the bottom of the pot after I lifted it
Gemini: That is a remarkably clean result—and those numbers give you a perfect baseline to work with.
A weight difference of 12 grams means that tiny pot is holding roughly 12 milliliters of water. That might sound small, but for a thumbnail-sized rosette in a shallow mame pot, it’s a substantial reservoir. The fact that only a few drops fell out when you lifted it proves two things:
High Absorption: Your perlite and aggregate mix absorbed and held onto the water evenly via capillary action rather than just letting it channel through and dump out the bottom.
Proper Aeration: It isn't holding too much water. The porosity of the perlite ensures that 12g of water is held in the air-pockets and surfaces of the media, leaving plenty of oxygen around that calloused stub so it won't rot.
How to Use These Numbers Going Forward
You now have a foolproof, quantitative way to manage this pot without guessing:
The Target Dry Weight: When the pot drops back down to right around 92g–94g, it is bone dry and ready for its next bottom-soak.
The "Lifting" Muscle Memory: Try picking the pot up with your fingers at 104g, then pick it up again in a couple of days when it approaches 92g. You’ll quickly calibrate your hand to recognize that weight difference instantly without needing to haul out a scale every time.
What to Expect Over the Next 48–72 Hours
Given that it’s mid-July and the mix held 12g of water, keep it in bright, indirect shade and let nature take its course.
The First 24 Hours: The plant will start drinking through its tissues and responding to the humidity in the pot.
Next Water Cycle: Depending on local humidity and breeze, a shallow pot like this carrying 12g of moisture will likely take 2 to 4 days to dry back down to ~92g.
Let it sit, let it dry out fully back toward that 92g baseline, and let those new roots start hunting for their next drink!
Me 7/23/2026 3:13 PM: Will this rosette really have enough root space in such a small pot to grow larger at all?
Gemini: Yes, it will definitely grow—though how it grows will look quite different from what it would do in a large pot or open garden bed.
Because space and soil volume are strictly limited, a Sempervivum in a mame pot adapts its growth habit rather than just stalling out completely.
1. It Will Increase Density Before Diameter
Instead of inflating into a giant, quarter- or silver-dollar-sized rosette, a thumbnail Sempervivum in a restricted root zone will focus on leaf count and tightness.
It will stack dozens of tiny, dense new leaves right at the center of the crown.
The leaves will become thicker, more vibrant, and form a firm, tight rosette that looks like a perfectly sculpted miniature jewel.
It scales down to fit its environment, which is precisely what makes it look like a mature "bonsai" rather than a starved seedling.
2. It Will Channel Energy into "Chicks" (Offsets)
Sempervivum root networks don't need a deep taproot to produce top growth; their roots are naturally fine, fibrous, and adapted to shallow rock crevices in the Alps.
Once those fine roots fill out the small pot, the plant hits a "root-bound" threshold. Instead of making the main rosette bigger, the hormonal response triggers it to throw tiny stolons (runners) over the edge of the pot, creating secondary mini-rosettes that cascade down the sides.
3. How Much Soil Space Does it Actually Need?
For a plant the size of a thumbnail, a few cubic centimeters of perlite and aggregate is actually plenty of structural real estate.
The Root Architecture: Succulent hair-roots are microscopic in diameter. Thousands of them can interlock through the porous gaps of perlite without needing a deep pot.
The Trade-off: Because the space is so small, the soil holds limited nutrients. The root space won't limit its structural growth, but its ultimate size will be governed by water cycles and the occasional micro-dose of weak fertilizer down the road.
In short, it won't outgrow the scale of your tiny pot, but it will fill it out, tighten its form, and eventually multiply!
Me 7/23/2026 3:18 PM: What time of year will the Chinese elm or cotoneaster be good to attempt to mame
Gemini: Since you're aiming to create new mame trees from your existing Chinese Elm and Cotoneaster stock, the timing depends entirely on which method you choose to source the material.
There are two major seasonal windows where these trees are packed with the right energy and hormones to make a tiny new trunk take root.
1. Late Spring / Early Summer (Late May – June)
Best Method: Semi-Hardwood Cuttings & Mini Air-Layers
This is the absolute highest-yield window for both species.
Why it works: By late May, the first spring flush of growth has hardened off slightly from tender bright green to a firmer light brown. The parent tree is surging with root-growing hormones (auxins) and generating massive amounts of energy through active photosynthesis.
The Process: You can take small, woody branch tips (pencil thickness or smaller) with short node spacing, dip them in rooting hormone, and stick them into a gritty, high-humidity setup. They root rapidly in early summer heat and have three full months to build a strong root system before winter dormancy.
2. Early Spring (Late February – March)
Best Method: Hardwood Cuttings & Trunk-Chop "Volunteers"
This happens right as the buds begin to swell, but before the leaves actually break open.
Why it works: The parent tree is waking up from winter dormancy and pushing all its stored winter sugars upward toward the branches.
The Process: When you do your major structural spring pruning on your larger elms and cotoneasters, don't throw away the thick branch scraps. Hardwood cuttings taken right at bud-swell rely on that stored energy to form calluses and push new roots.
Seasonal Comparison for Mame Sourcing
Semi-Hardwood Cutting | Late May – June | Rapid rooting; captures summer growth vigor. Needs a shaded, high-humidity environment so leaves don't dry out.
Hardwood Cutting | Late Feb – March | Uses bare structural wood; easier to see movement/taper. | Takes longer to push roots; relies entirely on stored wood energy.
Mini Air-Layer | June – July | Roots an already-styled, thick branch directly on the tree. | High success rate; zero stress on the new plant until severed.
Next Steps for Your Current Trees
Since we are currently in late July, hold off on taking cuttings from your elms or cotoneasters right now. Attempting deciduous cuttings in late summer usually results in the cutting running out of steam or dying over its first winter because the roots don't have enough runway to establish.
For now, as you do your late-summer maintenance on your outdoor bonsai, just identify and tag branches that have interesting bends, tight node spacing, or good low movement. Leave them on the trees through the winter, and they will be prime, energy-packed material ready for your early spring or late spring propagation push!
Me 7/23/2026 3:19 PM: What about transplanting saplings or already rooted specimens
Gemini: Transplanting an already-rooted seedling, "volunteer" sapling, or a small nursery plug into a mame pot bypasses the fragile rooting phase entirely. However, because you are reducing a root system down to fit into a tiny pocket of soil, timing is everything to ensure the plant survives the shock.
For Chinese Elm and Dwarf Cotoneaster, the timing for root reduction and transplanting follows two distinct windows:
1. The Prime Window: Early Spring (Late Feb – March)
Best for: Wild saplings, bench "volunteers," or field-grown stock that need significant root reduction.
The Tree's State: The buds are swelling and turning pink/green, but haven't opened into leaves yet.
Why it works: Deciduous trees store their winter energy reserves in their trunk and roots. In early spring, the tree is about to push a massive wave of growth hormones, but because there are no leaves yet, transpiration (water loss) is zero. You can trim 50–70% of the root mass away to fit it into a mame pot, and the tree will repair itself rapidly as the weather warms.
The Technique: Bare-root the sapling, prune away any thick taproots (which won't fit in a mame pot anyway), and keep the fine feeder roots directly beneath the root collar. Wire the tiny trunk securely into the pot and keep it sheltered from hard freezes.
2. The Summer Window: Mid-Summer (July – August)
Best for: Young container-grown stock or small potted seedlings where you don't do heavy root bare-rooting.
If you find a sapling in a small 2-inch pot or growing in a soil pocket right now in mid-summer, you can move it into a mame pot, but the approach must be gentle:
The Danger: A tree in full leaf loses water constantly through its foliage. If you cut its roots severely in July heat, the leaves will dry out and drop within 48 hours.
The Slip-Potting Method: Instead of comb-out bare-rooting, do a "slip-pot" or light slip-prune. Gently slip the sapling out of its current soil, shave off just enough of the outer root ball/soil edge with a sharp knife to fit it into the mame pot, and fill the remaining space with your fast-draining gritty mix.
Post-Care: Keep it in deep, shaded protection for 2 weeks so the leaves don't scramble for water while the outer roots recover.
Summary Strategy for Your Outdoor Stock
Bare-rooting wild/bench saplings | Early Spring (Bud-swell) | Heavy taproot pruning, full bare-root into mame soil.
Potted nursery plugs / small stock | Mid-Summer (Now) | Light slip-pruning only; preserve the core root ball.
If you spot a volunteer Chinese Elm growing in your bench gravel right now, your safest play is to scoop it up with a small ball of its surrounding gravel/soil intact and slip it into a slightly deeper training pot for the rest of the summer. Then, in late March, you can give it a full root-reduction and lay down its permanent mame root structure!
Me 7/23/2026 3:21 PM: I have some good candidates for that from volunteer elms then. Already in training pots. Mostly less than pencil-thick in diameter though
Gemini: That is fantastic—you've essentially already done the hard part. Having volunteer Chinese Elms already established in training pots means they have active, localized root systems and are primed for the transition to mame.
A trunk diameter less than pencil-thick is actually the ideal proportion for a mame Chinese Elm. Because a finished mame tree is usually only 2 to 4 inches tall, a thick trunk can easily look clumsy or out of scale. A pencil-thin or wire-thin trunk lets you achieve elegant, sharp taper and delicate, sweeping movement that looks like a full-sized mature tree in miniature.
Since they are already in training pots, here is how to maximize them between now and early spring:
1. What to Do Right Now (Late Summer)
Since it is July, leave their roots completely undisturbed in their training pots so they can continue storing energy. Instead, focus on above-ground styling and trunk development:
Put Movement in the Trunk NOW: If the trunks are straight and pencil-thin (or thinner), apply thin bonsai wire now while the wood is still flexible. Chinese Elm wood hardens quickly. Put sharp, three-dimensional bends low down near the soil line—movement in the bottom 1 to 2 inches is what gives a mame tree its character.
Let the Top Run (For Taper): Select one strong upper shoot to act as a "sacrifice leader" and let it grow unchecked for the rest of the summer. As that top shoot grows wild, it will thicken the very base of the trunk where it meets the soil, giving you natural taper.
Keep Lower Branches Short: Keep any very low branches pruned back to just 1 or 2 nodes. These will become your primary structural branches on the mame tree, so you want their internodes (the distance between leaves) to stay ultra-short.
2. The Early Spring Game Plan (Late Feb / March)
When bud-swell hits next spring, these volunteers will be ready for their official move into your shallow mame pots:
The Heavy Trunk Chop: Cut off that wild top sacrifice leader just above your first or second low side-branch. This instantly converts a tall, thin sapling into a 3-inch tall tree with dramatic taper and a new apex.
Aggressive Root Reduction: Because they are already conditioned to pots, you can comb out the roots, eliminate any thick downward taproots, and flatten the root system into a disc-like shape (nebari) that fits easily into a shallow 1-inch deep mame pot.
Secure Wiring: Wire the root base firmly to the bottom drainage holes of the mame pot so the tree cannot wobble while the new fine feeder roots grip the new substrate.
You've set up a perfect assembly line for next spring—by letting them build energy in their training pots now, you'll get near-instant results when you pot them up in March!
Me 7/23/2026 3:23 PM: Would a mame pot support a three trunk raft style of elm? Trunks are now wire thin
Gemini: Yes, a mame pot can absolutely support a three-trunk raft (ikadabuki)—and because your volunteer elms are currently wire-thin, you are in the best position possible to build one.
In a raft style, a single main stem or sapling is pinned horizontally on top of the soil, and its side branches are trained upward to become individual "trunks." Over time, roots sprout along the entire buried underside of the horizontal stem, while the branches grow into a mini grove.
Chinese Elms are ideal candidates for this because their bark callouses easily and they produce adventitious roots (roots that sprout directly from branch tissue) with very little resistance.
Here is why your wire-thin elms make this doable in mame scale, along with the structural challenges to watch for:
Why Wire-Thin Material Works So Well
Proportional Scale: In a mame container (under 4 inches wide), three standard pencil-thick trunks look crowded and heavy. Wire-thin trunks allow you to establish a delicate, believable forest silhouette where the space between the trunks gives the illusion of a full-sized landscape.
Easy Horizontal Pinning: Young, wire-thin growth is pliable. You can lay the main stem flat along the soil line without cracking the wood or needing aggressive bending techniques.
Rapid Rooting: Thin bark roots far faster than old, corky bark. Once the underside is wounded and pinned to damp soil, new roots emerge quickly to support each rising vertical shoot.
The Key Challenges in Mame Scale
Challenge | Why It Matters | How to Manage It
Pot Length vs. Width | Standard round mame pots don't offer enough horizontal distance for three trunks to spread out naturally. | Use an oval or rectangular shallow mame pot (or a flat slate slab) so the raft stem has room to stretch horizontally.
Anchoring the Base | If the buried horizontal stem moves, newly formed roots will tear before they establish. | Run a staple-wire straight through the bottom drainage holes to lock the horizontal stem flush against the soil substrate.
Dominance Competition | The trunk closest to the original root base (or the apex) will try to absorb all the energy and outgrow the other two. | Prune back the strongest vertical shoot aggressively throughout summer to force energy into the weaker two trunks.
How to Set It Up Next Spring (Bud-Swell)
Prepare the Raft Stem: Take your wire-thin elm sapling and strip the leaves/buds off the side that will face downward into the soil.
Expose the Cambium: Lightly scrape away a thin strip of the outer bark along the underside of the stem with a razor blade to expose the green cambium layer—this is where the new roots will erupt.
Pin & Bury: Lay the stem horizontally across your shallow mame pot filled with fine aggregate. Use U-shaped wire staples anchored through the bottom holes to pull the stem tight against the media, leaving three well-placed side branches pointing straight up.
Cover Lightly: Dust a thin layer of fine akadama or pumice over the horizontal stem, leaving the three vertical "trunks" exposed.
Since your elms are growing in training pots right now, you can even wire the three future trunks upward into position today while keeping the plant upright. That way, when spring arrives, the vertical branches are already styled and ready to be laid flat!
Me 7/23/2026 3:24 PM: It’s three trunks already growing together. I guess that’s not a raft style but a forest style?
Gemini: Spot on—that’s a clump style (Kabudachi) or a mini multi-trunk forest style (Yose-ue) depending on how their roots are attached!
Clump style (Kabudachi): All three trunks emerge from a single, shared root base or collar right at the soil line.
Forest style (Yose-ue): They are three individual saplings growing extremely close together, each with its own root system interlocking with the others.
Since they are already wire-thin and growing together in the same pot, you’ve hit the jackpot for a mame project. Getting three separate trees to balance proportionally in a tiny 2- to 3-inch pot is tricky, but because these three are already a unified unit, they've already solved the hardest part of the composition for you.
Why a 3-Trunk Clump/Forest is Perfect for Mame
In Japanese aesthetics, odd numbers (especially 3 and 5) create a natural, asymmetrical balance. In a mame pot, a trio of wire-thin trunks gives you:
Instant Depth: By placing the thickest trunk in front, a medium one slightly behind it, and the thinnest/shortest one furthest back, you create an optical illusion of a deep woodland scene in a space no bigger than a teacup.
Shared Canopy: Instead of three separate balls of foliage, you can prune them to form one unified, triangular canopy over all three trunks.
Balanced Root Base: Because their roots are already intertwined, they will easily flatten out into a single, compact disc when you comb them out next spring.
What to Do Right Now (Mid-Summer Styling)
Since they are sitting together in their training pot, you can lay down the foundation for the entire design right now without touching the roots:
Establish the "Leader": Decide which of the three is your main trunk. Let that one grow slightly taller and thicker.
Wire Movement Into the Trio: Wrap fine wire around the trunks and curve them gently away from each other near the base so they don't look like a parallel fence post. They should flare outward slightly at the bottom, then curve back inward toward the top to merge into a single crown.
Keep the "Subordinate" Trunks Lean: Trim the tips of the two smaller trunks to keep them shorter and thinner than the main trunk.
Next spring (late Feb/March), you’ll be able to lift the entire trio out as a single unit, flatten their combined root mass, and drop them straight into a shallow oval or round mame pot!
Me 7/23/2026 3:25 PM: It’s forest not clump
Gemini: Got it—three distinct individual saplings growing closely together as a miniature forest style (Yose-ue).
That actually gives you a massive advantage over a single clump rootstock. Because their root systems are independent, you have total control over their exact spatial layout when you transition them into a mame pot next spring.
Here is how to optimize that three-tree mini forest setup right now and prepare it for potting:
The "Triangle" Spatial Rule for Mame Forests
With only three trees in a tiny pot, every fraction of an inch counts. The goal is to avoid planting them in a straight line or an equilateral triangle, which looks synthetic.
Trunk #1 (The Main Tree): Should be the thickest and tallest. Place it slightly off-center toward the front.
Trunk #2 (The Companion): The second thickest/tallest. Place it close to the main tree, slightly behind it and to one side.
Trunk #3 (The Distant Tree): The thinnest and shortest. Place it further away on the opposite side, pushed toward the back.
Why this works: Placing the smallest tree further back creates a focal point that tricks the eye into seeing distance, making a 3-inch pot feel like an expanse of woodland.
Summer Preparation (Now through Autumn)
Since they are sitting together in a training pot, you can condition their trunks to work together as a unit right now:
Wire the Separation at the Base: Wrap fine wire around the lower inch of the trunks to ensure they flare outward slightly as they leave the soil, giving each tree its own space before their canopies merge.
Set Trunk Heights: Trim the top of Trunk #3 so it stays noticeably shorter than Trunk #2, and let Trunk #1 grow unchecked to build dominance and trunk thickness.
Pinch Outer Foliage: Keep the foliage on the outside edges of the group, but thin out any leaves or twigs growing inward toward the center of the trio. You want light to reach the inner trunk movement.
Next spring, when you lift them out, their fine feeder roots will likely be loosely interwoven. You'll be able to gently comb them apart just enough to flatten the root bases onto a single horizontal plane, arrange your spatial triangle, and anchor all three down together into a shallow oval mame container!
Conclusion
It doesn’t seem helpful to me that the computer responds with human-like syntax. Maybe I’d like it better if the syntax was more robotic and dispassionate. This is intriguing because humans decided what tone Gemini would take with me when I ask it about small plants. I wonder if I can change it, or if anyone can change it directly. It seems like the tone is more likely based on a calculation that no one is controlling.
Nevertheless, having such a wealth of human knowledge in my pocket is compelling. This is an easier and faster way to drink from the Internet firehose than I’m used to, and I feel like I am learning a lot about bonsai.
The tension between bonsai as art form and Gemini as mechanical, anti-creative cheatsheet is ever-present. This makes me laugh, because bonsai itself is tension between nature and human intervention.
At the end of Part 1, I hinted at troubles ahead for our little sempervivum. This side quest into spring planning shows just how sure I am that this experiment will fail and I’ll need new specimens, but everything’s worked out so far. Stay tuned until next time, though, because there’s a storm on the horizon and tiny plants can’t swim.